Why Stoics and Perfectionists CAN’T Bedshare with their Kids

There has been a bit of a conversation over at lifewithgoblins blog about bedsharing. You can check it out here. And so I thought it might be a good time to throw some of my ideas into the mix. Ones built on the work of others, nevertheless  a little snippet of my twist on life and the universe.

You see it dawned on me, as I was churning through books such as: The Developing Mind by Daniel J. Siegel; Becoming Attached by Robert Karen; Why Love Matters by Sue Gerhardt; Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman; The Emotional Brain by Joseph le Doux… amongst others (Yes, secret swot ), that although I love, love, love attachment theory – it only goes part of the way to explain the ‘why’ of people. I’m a bit annoying like that.

 The theory I was reading was great but it didn’t always translate into enough detail for me – once I started looking at real people. And as far as I’m concerned all the theory in the world is worth squat, if it doesn’t match real people. I’ve come up with a heap of different parenting styles and then, of course because we’re human and not good at fitting into boxes, I get the intersection between many of them too. Today I thought I’d introduce seven of them with this concept of bed-sharing. Just to see what you all make of it. Remember, please, this is just one small snippet of the whole theory – and it is probably the bit closest to already established attachment theory.

1. First, we get our natural bed-sharers. The people for whom  that’s just the way parenting has happened and if we’re one of these people, we couldn’t think of raising our children any other way. We have had either a highly nurturing relationship with one or more adult (probably Mum) and/or lots and lots and lots of great sex with one person – usually between the ages of 17 and 25. 😉 (Secure attachment in attachment theory.)

2. Then there are those of us I call sensitive-intellectuals until I get clever and think of a decent label. Those of us who might not have had the flashest start to life, or might have had an OK start to life just not as nurturing as group 1, and who have read enough and feel responsible towards our kids enough that we will force our way through the parenting style we were programmed with (via Mum and Dad, although they probably didn’t even realise that was what was happening and were probably doing their best) or the current ‘expert.’  There are two groups here: those of us who will pick up a baby when it cries and offer comfort. And those of us who will go the whole-hog and do the above plus bedshare – even if it almost drives us into the depths of insanity at times. (Any attachment style in attachment theory behaving like a securely attached parent.)

3. And now those of us who have had a completely rubbish start to life – and still manage to pick up the baby, to stop it (or us) being beaten, or bed-share for the same reason. (Chaotic attachment person behaving like a securely attached person in this instance or at this time.)

4. Then there are those of us who fret about safety and/or what the neighbours (actually more likely the grandmothers or our friends) think about bedsharing. So we might want to, might bedshare sometimes, but feel guilty the whole time and it all becomes a ghastly experience. We are also the ones most likely not to bedshare or even have the baby in the same room, because our partner doesn’t want to. Or we might be a solo parent, who is just too exhausted to full-time bedshare – although we may have under different circumstances. (And do from time to time because the kids sneak into bed with us and we’re too tired to do anything about it.) (Ambivalent attachment in attachment theory.)

5. Those of us who don’t bedshare and/or don’t always pick up the crying baby because we want to do what is right, and we’ve been told doing both of these is wrong. Although we might go through emotional agony listening to our darling scream and secretly enjoy snuggling with them in bed, we would never bedshare. (Ambivalent attachment in attachment theory – behaving like an avoidant attachment person in order to please someone other than the baby. Usually a husband, mother or ‘expert.’)

6. Then we get those of us who are stoics and perfectionists. Often we are the people who make it to the top of our careers and end up being ‘experts’ and/or policy makers. And those of us in this group often hate and despise bedsharing with a vengeance. We value independence and stoicism, and believe ‘tough love’ is what babies and small children need most. Discipline and routines rule in our home. The flip side is of course, that those of us in this group think our parents (although we might respect and admire them) aren’t there for us emotionally. We see emotional outbursts as signs of weakness. We just couldn’t bed-share. Ever. And some of us can’t see why anyone else should be able to either. (Avoidant attachment in attachment parenting.)

7. Then there’s those of us who give bedsharing a bad name because we do bedshare drunk, in a water-bed, with a pedophile and end up killing our kids by mistake. (Chaotic attachment in attachment theory.)

The big WHY? Well, again everyone else’s research but my concept and title, as far as I can make out.

Nurturing Limits (NL)

And they’re nothing to joke about. Unless we are super-self-aware, we probably don’t even realise what’s happening. We just react. If we have a high NL, it means we find it easier to nurture our kids and if we have a low NL, it means we find it harder. And stress lowers our natural NL. So back to our examples:

Those in group 1. naturally have an extremely high NL and for us full-time emotional availability comes easily.

2. Might have a low NL but force ourselves, a bit like torture for the first three years of each child’s life, to push through our NL and give our kids an emotionally supportive start.

3. Extremely low NL. Having to nurture a small baby just feels like another bit of stress to add to our constant state of feeling emotionally overwhelmed. No idea we’re being useful to our child long-term, just surviving – thanks.

4. Erratic levels of NL.

5. Erratic levels of NL again.

6. Very low NL. The sooner that kids are independent, the better.

7. Next to no NL, just trying to survive ourselves, thanks.

So there you go. According to my theory, those of us who are true Stoics and Perfectionists actually can’t bedshare with our kids because we have a very low NL. Our brains won’t let us, because we experience intense discomfort when *anyone* is emotionally needy – and let’s face it, babies and children are intensely emotionally needy. There’s no way that we could give emotionally all night long.We want independence and we want it fast. If we are a stoic or perfectionist who does manage to always offer comfort to a distressed baby/child and/or bedshare, we are probably able to rationalise the experience and push through our NL – as in number 2 example.

If you want to start bedsharing you must, must, must do it safely – especially when they are very small (bassinet next to the bed for the first six months isn’t a silly idea), and don’t expect it to be fun for at least six months if you’re starting with an older child. Unless you like midnight wrestling, don’t even try to start with a child between nine months and two years, they can’t seem to get past the idea that it’s not play time. Even some permanent bed-sharers go through this phase. Oh, and give yourselves lots of space, we have five of us in two queen sized beds.

And if you want to read some proper research about bedsharing go to this site here.

Don’t steal my ideas. I won’t be happy and might send aliens to hunt you down.

References: The Developing Mind by Daniel J. Siegel; Becoming Attached by Robert Karen; Why Love Matters by Sue Gerhardt; Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman; The Emotional Brain by Joseph le Doux

Comments, please. 🙂 Does any of this sound like you, or people you know?

(This is officially how I help put food on the table. If you’ve found this article useful, please feel free to use the Koha button just above my blogroll. Even the smallest amount is appreciated. 🙂 )

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About Karyn @ kloppenmum

kloppenmum is me, Karyn Van Der Zwet, mother of three and ex-teacher. I'm part of a revolution in parenting, with the aim to raise mature (not sophisticated) and self-assured children. I also know some stuff about adults. I have also had articles printed in The Journal for The British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy (Children and Young People) and the US parenting magazine, Pathways to Family Wellness, as well I regularly write for World Moms Blog (named as one of the Forbes 100 most useful blogs for women 2012 &2013). You can follow me on facebook (kloppenmum) pinterest (Karyn at Kloppenmum) and twitter (@kloppenmum). I'm also vaguely on LinkedIn (Karyn Van Der Zwet). Thanks to Joe (Mr Hare) for taking the photo. Cheers, son: xxxx.
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38 Responses to Why Stoics and Perfectionists CAN’T Bedshare with their Kids

  1. I can talk about this subject all day! It fascinates me, I’m not sure why…..I think it may be because co-sleeping is what humans did until recently in certain parts of the world. Why did we make a big change and abandon it, even more, why has it become “dangerous” in the eyes of experts until now when solid research is showing otherwise. Ridiculous. The people who harm or kill their babies doing this would just harm them some other way as they can’t use common sense or stop drinking/taking drugs to begin with! I realize that it became a “revolution” of sorts for parents to begin using them as a way to have more privacy, however, it doesn’t seem to make much sense. The lack of commonplace co-sleeping is simply another example to me of the breakdown of our connectedness with one another. Thanks for posting this! And the plug too…..very kind of you fellow co-sleeper (bed-sharer). 🙂

    • Hi there fellow neuro-nut! You’re welcome about the plug…I was intending to write about bedsharing at some stage, you just gave me the oomph to get on and do it now. I think the Industrial Revolution has a lot to explain myself. Did you know that four hourly feeding came in to fit the babies needs around the women working in factories (breaks were every four hours)? Once one generation is somewhat disconnected, then it becomes easier for the next to disconnect a little more and so on. I think it’s fantastic that there is now a revolution amongst the middle-classes back to bedsharing. (I make the distinction, because I understood cosleeping just means in the same room. So a child on a matress on the floor would be considered cosleeping as much as one in the bed with Mum and Dad.)

  2. lol…I’m #1!!! Do I have to comment on why? hehe 😉

    Anyway, I’m reading this just after I came out of our room from tucking in the kids to our gigantic family bed…we do co-sleep. Nathan (almost 4) has his own room but NEVER sleeps in it…and he wets the bed, so its a double edged sword… we moved his bed into our room tonight (right on the floor next to ours) so now all four of us are officially in the same room…but at least we’ll have a bit more room to stretch. I put the baby in my bed and nathan in the extended family bed and he went right to sleep at 8:30…this never happens…he always has the second wind until 10. So this just makes me even more happy with my decision to just let him officially rejoin the family bed….
    okay…my book is over! Great post, love all the labeling and research…lol!

    • Hi there Jessica,
      Yes, both our big boys have their own rooms with their own beds, too. We even had a big day with each of them going to buy new bedding for their rooms…and they’re still with us. It doesn’t bother us in the slightest, once you’ve met a few ex-bedsharing kids I think you realise that it has a-w-e-s-o-m-e long term results. Thanks for the big long comment – love it. 🙂

  3. Lauren says:

    If I had to put down which number I was, it would be a 5.5. I have only shared my bed with Jensen once, and that was when he was really sick.

    Because we had him in a set routine from around 3 months, he has been sleeping in his own room, in his own bed, without any nightlight, he seems to only want to sleep in his own bed, in his own room.

    Yes, there are times when all I want to do is curl up in his bed and sleep next to him, but HE is the one who doesnt like it more than anything else!

    • You don’t have to put down a number! lol This was a post to get the discussion out in the open, there are so many bedsharing parents who do so secretly because there’s so much negative press. If you let Jensen know it *was* an option, do you think he’d change his mind? And I totally agree on the nightlight thing, we don’t have them either.

  4. For those interested in how Karyn’s ideas fit into attachment theory, I have posted an overview of attachment theory at http://www.professionalportfolio.net/user/view.php?id=75

    Look for “Presentation – An overview of Attachment Theory”.

    This is the first part of a presentation I have given to foster carers, community workers, and preservice teachers over the past five years. I couldn’t post it to the blog because it is too big. The second part “Presentation – Interventions based on Attachment Theory” is still being converted into a suitable format for posting.

    • Hi there. Narelle,
      (New blog for you?)
      Thanks for putting in the overview, and linking it. I wasn’t too sure how much attachment information to put in (as this isn’t strictly attachment theory), but having that readily available will be great for anyone new to the information. Have a great day!

  5. kaet says:

    You know, I really appreciate all the theory and studies saying bed-sharing is good for my baby, but even if that were completely ambivalent, it’s still best for me! It makes sleep-time (DH works nights, so that can be all sorts of times of day) baby care so much easier, and saves us space and money that a cot/crib would take. We haven’t tried travelling with her yet, but I’m really glad not to have to deal with that kind of equipment.

    Yeah, I’m having a selfish day moment. (I hope that’s all it is! 😉 )

    • Hi Kaet,
      Yes, having bedsharing children certainly makes travelling easier. And I totally agree that (now we’ve sorted out the kinks in the process) bedsharing is great for all of us. It’s so much easier with a sick child to just reach out and check on them, it means more snuggles and b’feeding, and I feel much more comfortable when Craig is away. It’s all good!

  6. Laura Weldon says:

    Brilliant. I kept nodding in recognition. Your expanded analysis works for everyone I know (although I won’t be going around telling folks I’m a “sensitive-intellectual” any time soon). Really really brilliant.

    • Hi Laura,
      I know what you mean about that label, I’m going to have to come up with something better than that! At least it explains ‘us’ who don’t do all this stuff naturally, but are jolly well going to do it anyway and anyhow. Thanks for your support, always pleased to have it. 🙂

  7. lilzbear says:

    This is very interesting. Here is what happens in our house: Baby (who is almost 9 months old) sleeps in his crib in his room with the door closed and a baby monitor (he is a light sleeper and when we are up, noise rouses him from his sleep). We don’t hear from him until the next morning when we go greet him and spend some bonding time before we both head out to work. On nights that he cries in the middle of the night, we wait a minute or two, often he falls right back asleep. If not, we go in his room and pick him up, calm him down and put him back to sleep. Here’s the thing though, after he is comforted, he just wants to go back in his crib and go to sleep, if we bring him in the bed with us he will fuss and kick, and the minute we put him back in the crib, sooth him with our voices and walk out he falls asleep easily I love the concept of bed sharing, but we just can’t get our little guy to do it with us! I’ve researched without much luck what type of parents that makes us, and what kind of baby that makes him…I do fret that we are alienating him because he sleeps in his own room 😦

    • Hi there lilzbear,
      Yes, I’ve heard about these children who are not so keen on being in bed with their folks. I would think how you’ve described yourselves here you would fit into category 2…not natural bed-sharers, but aware that a baby uses crying to communicate. Warm responsive parenting is what is important, and it sounds to me like you are parenting that way. I used the bedsharing just as an example, and know some stunning children who never bed-shared but had parents who were emotionally supportive in other ways. (Like comforting them when they were crying during the night.)

      • hakea says:

        I have had 2 co-sleepers and 1 non co-sleeper. Middle boy had no interest in sleeping with us. As soon as he could move around, he was out of there. I had a cot next to our bed and he would jump into it. Just the way he was.

        When he was 5 he asked if we could buy the house next door, so he could live in it by himself. He does like his own mental, physical, emotional space!

        Now he is 8 and he will go into someone else’s bed (us or his brothers) if he has had a nightmare.

        • That’s interesting about your middle son, who seems to be otherwise similar to our middle boy. I guess the physiological regulation he got from just being near, rather than with, you was enough for him. Our middle one sleeps with one of his legs over mine and his body pressed into my back (very hot in summer!) but I think when he does leave, it will be pretty well for good. Have no idea when the Hare will leave – currently thinks his future (late teenage) girlfriend can share the bed too (next to Craig). Craig thought that a fine idea. LOL

        • lilzbear says:

          I can’t stop laughing at your son’s request for his own house! Hmm…I wonder if that is what we have to look forward to in the future :).

  8. adhdwith3 says:

    The bed sharing I had done has been accidental–like nursing a baby in bed and falling asleep. I always wake up freaked out that I’ve rolled over the baby. I finally just started getting up and nursing the baby in the rocking chair, but I fell asleep there too. Then I’d wake up freaked out that I’ve dropped the baby.

    • lol
      I certainly struggled with the rolling concept, too. And that’s why I make such a big deal about it having to be safe. Exhaustion disturbs your natural awareness sometimes and I would hate anyone to try this and then something dreadful happen. Larger children are much harder to squash and they tend to yell a bit, if you try!

  9. changengrow says:

    Can I be #8? Someone who loves sleep very very much? It took me several years to adjust to sharing my bed with my husband – even though neither of us are “cuddlers” – because I’m such a light sleeper. His every move would wake me up. I actually started sleeping best when we finally bought a king-size. During my pregnancy, I was miserable – I’m a stomach sleeper – which of course, was a no-no. Then I’d wake up sometimes realizing I’d been sleeping on my back and would freak out (I had read somewhere that was bad for both of our circulations). Anyway, once son came along, I thought about bed-sharing. But the two times I tried it, I slept curled in a ball at the foot of the bed, fitfully, afraid I was going to roll on him, that he would roll over or that one of us would fall off the bed.
    So, my craving for sleep over-rid anything else. Maybe not the best tactic but I just couldn’t function. And being extra sleep-deprived made me stressed, anxious and impatient – not a nurturing mommy.
    Now 3, my son has had a regular, peaceful sleeping rhythm since he was about 9 mths old. He does sometimes wake in the middle of the night (the time change this week has had him waking at 4 every night wanting to play with toys?!), but I can count on him to sleep a solid 12 hrs and then another 2 during the day. We can’t underestimate the importance of a good-night’s sleep, right?

    • You can be #8 if you want to!
      I was a tummy sleeper, too – and I found it difficult to sleep when I was pregnant. I always felt like I couldn’t breathe sleeping on my back, sometimes waking in a panic. Sleep-deprivation is such a huge issue for mothers and I agree a good run of sleep is very important. I used the bed-sharing as an example, not as ‘this is the only way to nurture your children.’ Children who have otherwise warmly responsive parents usually do very well without ever bed-sharing. Great point, I’m pleased you raised it.

  10. Li-ling says:

    Hi Karyn, Great post and very thorough analysis!
    We co-slept from birth till about 2. G always had her own single bed (we never bothered to get a crib) and has always and still sleeps in the same bed.
    It was really easy moving her to her own room, basically we came back from holiday and moved her bed in to her own room and that was it….she’s stayed there ever since.
    She does come and jump in to our bed at 5am most mornings still though!
    It does seem though these parenting theories fit mainly with the Western culture, I think it was hakea’s response over on lifewithgoblins, to quote “I would tell white families not to teach Indian and African children self-care skills – if the children went back to their mothers, the mothers would feel rejected by the child’s new found independence” that hit it home.
    Most of my friends and peers from Malaysia were brought up in a very ‘attached’ way (minus the obvious high expectations and emphasis on academic achievements 😉 Crying babies are always attended to, co-sleeping was probably exceptionally common…I have found though, with education and greater availibility of text/information, more and more have come to rely on ferber, gina ford etc, moving away from the inherent naturally more nurturing parenting. It’s one of those situations in which better education leads to worse outcomes, sadly….

    • Hi Li-ling,
      I think you’re so right about it being a western phenomena. And sometimes a ‘keep-up-with-the-jones’ phenomena too: often wealthy people in the past had their children in separate rooms from their parents, so anyone who wanted to think themselves wealthy started to do the same. Interestingly, it is only a recent way of parenting. Read many historical novels (especially those written at the time) and you find women bedsharing into adulthood, children often shared beds with one another once they graduated from their parents’ bed etc. I hope it does become the norm again, it is a far healthier way to parent, I think…no, I know! lol

      • kaet says:

        Apparently (according to a biography of her that I read) it was only when Victoria became queen (at age 18) that she outranked her mother and thus got to tell her that she was going to have a bedroom of her own. It was supposed to be about the first thing she did as queen… (The biographer really didn’t think much of Victoria’s mother or their relationship.) I don’t remember did they bedshare or just room share (if it was specified).

        • I think they were in separate beds, at least when she was older. Her mother seemed a bit intrusive! Victoria also famously didn’t like mothering much, she was besotted with Albert and regarded all her children as inconvenient side-effects of their affection for one another. lol

  11. MamaWerewolf says:

    Very interesting!
    I would say that I fall somewhere between 1 and 2… when the girl was tiny, she slept in her own bed for a variety of reasons (mainly my high level of paranoia that one of us would roll over on her)- and sleep was hard for all of us…
    Then, after my divorce, she started coming into my bed in the middle of the night. Our arrangement now is very comfortable for both of us:
    She starts in her own bed, with cozy songs and lullabies, then comes in to my room if she wakes up in the middle of the night – or if not then, then first thing in the morning. If we are both in a super cuddly mood, she may start in my bed. We both feel so comfortable with it that we can sleep in almost any sleeping arrangement.
    One thing I like so much about parenting and teaching is that there is not one right answer anymore than there is one personality type – it is all about finding that comfortable place for all involved. 🙂

    • It’s great that you’ve found a way to get lots of snuggles in !
      I’m going to disagree with you on the many ways to parent comment. Humans are biologically built to be raised in a certain way, and the greater the variation from that template the greater the problems the child has later in life: relationships, health, self-assurance etc. Yes, there can be some variation, but there are some key factors which have to be in place to raise calm and mature children to be calm and mature adults. I just don’t buy this idea that what is right for the family is right – in many cases those are the very families who end up asking why their kids are going off the rails later on, just because this information is not commonly known.

      • MamaWerewolf says:

        Hi Karyn,
        While I absolutely agree that there are a few fundamentals that necessarily must be in place for good parenting, (including: honoring and respecting the child as an individual, listening to what is being said by the child, valuing the child’s competencies and capabilities) I also honor and respect the fact there are different approaches to accomplishing this.

        Considering Howard Gardner’s explanation of the eight areas of intelligence or the anthroposophical notion of the four temperaments, it is clear that there are multiple “types” of people. There are children in my class who I know I can respond in one way, while there are other children I would respond to in a completely different way, based on the personality and temperament of that child. The common thread is that I would respond to both children with respect and honesty. To suggest that there is only one way to parent feels to me like disregarding the individual.

        This is not to suggest that every style of parenting is healthy. I have seen and read of many unhealthy styles. I have also seen and read of many healthy styles.

        Thanks for such an engaging topic! I am continuing to enjoy the provocations for thought on your blog.

        Cheers
        Alex

        • Hi Alex,
          I agree that there are multiple intelligences and that there are differences in temperament. And I stand on the statement that they are all biologically built to expect the same treatment from their parents, they might just need more or less…for example, melancholics have greater dependency needs – but if these are met, by the age of five they can be as confident and self-assured as any other child in most settings. All children need the quietest, calmest environment possible and so on… How parents go about doing that is an individual choice, but the template is there – and biology responds in kind. Enjoying the debate! 🙂

  12. Marcy says:

    I have little to no desire to bedshare, and it’s not because I think it’s wrong, but because I have a pretty high need for personal space, peace, and quiet. I also have trouble with sleeping — takes a long time to fall asleep, and I wake pretty easily. I’m ambivalent in attachment, leaning almost to avoidant. And yet I believe in responsive parenting, believe that crying is communication, and think a lot of attachment parenting is good stuff. We did the in-between sleep style — put Amy to sleep in her crib, returned to her room when she cried, to pat and reassure.

    Amy currently talks a lot about wishing she could sleep with us. I hurt for her, but I am not willing to start bedsharing now, even temporarily. Husband is even less interested. She’s four.

    • The key is the level parents respond to their children, of course. I just used bedsharing to illustrate some of the different parenting styles and explain some of the reasons why people make these kinds of decisions. It will be interesting to see if Amy is a bedsharer when she is an adult: I can remember hanging on to my Mum and begging her not to leave me at night (and all the sorrow that went with it when she did leave) and so I did things differently. Thanks for commenting, always good to hear from people. 🙂

  13. Pipi says:

    Me and my husband, we’ve been sleeping together in the same bed with our toddler son for the last 1.5 years. And now he plans to buy a small bed for our son, but still put it in our bedroom. And I feel awful already, for not being able to hold my son and fell asleep together. Help!!

    • Hi Pipi,
      We still snuggle with our nine year old as he goes to sleep…it’s an important time of the day and often the only time he will tell us ‘private’ things. It is often the men who want the kids out of the bed first. I’m sure you’ll come up with a solution that works for you all. 🙂

  14. @Pipi – I’m incredulous. And as much as I want to touch this one, I’ll respectfully hold it in and defer to Klopp and her, um, more diplomatic delivery …

  15. Loved loved loved this post, Karyn!

    I kept laughing and saying “totally”, and, “Oh, no kidding, right?” until my partner Natalie just *had* to know what I was reading.

    We’re total bed-sharers, because we think it’s most natural, because it’s been easiest, because we *like* it (most of the time), and because we fit in to the lower numbered categories you listed. I think I’m a 1.5 (mostly because of the “lots and lots and lots of” later attachment I was involved with between 17-25… 😉 ). And I happen to be a heck of sound sleeper, especially when the kids are *in* the bed (and I am thus able to let my radar ears rest, too).

    Thanks so much, Karyn. I’m going to reblog this, if you don’t mind!

    Be well,
    Nathan M

    • Pleased you could relate to this post, Nathan. Yes, of course reblog it! I agree on the radar-bit in your comment. I certainly sleep better with the children close-by than if they are in their own rooms and am a lot more confident when Craig has to be away…knowing everyone is within arms reach. I haven’t forgotten your post either. Hopefully will get to comment in the next day or two. 🙂

  16. @ Pipi –

    I’d say: TELL YOUR HUSBAND YOU DISAGREE!!! (Your baby only gets one shot to be nurtured enough. If that doesn’t occur, then he’ll likely be playing catch-up for most of his life. He *can* catch-up, but it’ll require significantly more work when he’s older to reset his attachment.)
    Or at the very least, perhaps you could negotiate to put your son to sleep in the family bed and them move him to the other bed (*right next to* the family bed) while he is asleep, and just keep him on the one side as much as possible, and your husband on the other side ;).

    Good luck, Pipi, I hope it all goes smoothly,
    Nathan M

  17. Pingback: Co-sleeping (or not) more about Parents than Kids? | "A Beautiful Place of the World"

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